Town council again says no to chickens

At the August 18 Thermopolis Town Council meeting Darren Butcher came in front of the council to present an updated request for a revision to the town’s ordinance to make chickens legal within the town’s borders. Butcher has been making his case, along with other allies, for about three years so far.

Butcher said he “was originally going to seek a test case scenario within a certain designated property, however, it has already been proven that chickens can be kept in town without being defined as a nuisance.”

 Butcher conceded that there have been chickens within town limits that could be and were what could be defined as a nuisance. He then provided a dictionary definition of ‘nuisance’ but then added, “‘I just don’t like them’ is not sufficient nor a reasonable approach to forming a law. Though it obviously stimulates, irritates and even provokes some people - is this based in reasonable thought? Having presented numerous reasons and proven facts about chicken’s actual “nuisance level” in comparison to dog waste/noise, power tools, construction, lawnmowers and yard waste.”

Butcher spoke to the council saying, “What I propose is that those citizens and households that were known to possess chickens, that were not a nuisance to their neighbors, have their birds returned to them and if not possible, new ones be acquired, up to the number they possessed with six being the max.”

 “I would also like to have the ability to start a small test run in a central location between 216 and 220 Clark Street. This, with the few other coops, would be the exception—revision—to the rule without approving “town-wide” madness that “many people” have opposed, without infringing on the property rights or proven to be or given the opportunity to be responsible citizens.”

“The area I propose would be more than 50 feet away from any direct living dwelling, is well structured, proper fencing, covered and isolated from direct impact on any neighbor. The birds would be kept inside an almost soundproof coop from sundown to the end of ‘quiet hours.’” 

Additionally, Butcher said, “I would also like to have the council consider assigning a small group oF willing individuals that would be the go-between to the city, so not to burden the paid employees or elected officials. All requests would be directed to the group or person, and upon the approval of each property, that “unofficial” group or person would then present the individual proposal to the Animal Control Officer, then to the council without taking time in the council meetings.”

 “Legalizing chickens without widespread, lawless disorder or a foul nature while putting a stop to chickens being a topic at council meetings is our goal,” added Butcher.

Butcher concluded with, “Any questions, concerns, any further clarity?” After a pause, Mayor Chimenti gestured to the Town Attorney, “Mr. Messenger, do you want to address that?” Mike Messenger replied after another pause, “I think the appropriate way for you to address that unless you have a motion or something is to say ‘Thank you’ and... move on.” Mayor Chimenti said, “That’s it.” Butcher thanked the Mayor. 

After no further citizen participation, Mayor Chimenti continued with the council’s meeting agenda.

Town Engineer Anthony Barnett reported on work done with the town shop roof and that progress is slow, but it is being done. Several companies did reply back to him about the roof but seem to be occupied at the moment with other work. Barnett also reported that cell nine at the landfill is getting filled up fast due to the construction projects, such as the hospital work. 

Assistant to Mayor Fred Crosby reported that as part of removing the tire waste, a contractor has removed 3,920 tires out of the landfill so far. There are more loads to do which would bring him up to the agreed amount which would be $7,800. Crosby asked for a vote of confidence that the contractor could continue on. The council voted and passed the motion to have him continue work.

Crosby also mentioned that he was approached by Mark Pepper from Rural Water about the possibility of doing COVID-19 testing in the town’s sewer system. There is some state funding for this. Crosby noted in an article from the Powell Tribune how they were doing their own COVID-19 testing. Crosby said they claimed the benefits of the testing are they can predict an onslaught of COVID-19 a week before it happens. Crosby explained the difficulties of doing the testing and the man-hours to do it. He also commented that he doesn’t think this testing would benefit the community because of the small size of the town.

Mayor Chimenti said, “I was part of that conversation and I don’t see how it would benefit us at all here.” After some discussion, the various council members expressed that they do not have much desire for this testing.

Crosby brought up two right of way agreements on two properties and commented that the plans look fine and asked for a vote on these. The council members voted and passed the motion with John Dorman, Sr. abstaining. 

During the council discussion, Bill Malloy asked to discuss the golf course situation. He questioned that since someone will be reporting to the town council, is there a need for a council member to be on the golf course board? Council member Tony Larson said he would provide the golf course board minutes. Malloy agreed to tell the golf course board they would just receive reports at town council and not be present on the golf course board.

Mayor Chimenti then checked to see if any other of the meeting participants had anything to report when Darren Butcher spoke up again. 

Butcher asked, “Mr. Mayor, can I get some clarification with the non-response like that? Do I take that as a unanimous, ‘No’?. Or how should I--” Mayor Chimenti replied, “Right now we take that as a unanimous no.” Butcher said, “Ok, thank you.”

After checking with Police Chief Julie Mathews if she had anything to report, Mayor Chimenti adjourned the meeting.

Citizens explain benefits of allowing chickens in town

Darren Butcher and his fellow advocates have been working on their effort to change the town’s ordinance to make chickens in town legal for several years and have met opposition from the Thermopolis Town Council members. The pro-chicken people seek to help the community because they view chickens as a benefit to the town.

Benefits of chickens

The Butcher’s and their allies have observed the struggles of the community, particularly those who constantly get their needs met from the food banks. They argue that chickens can provide a positive impact on the people because they provide regular fresh eggs; they consume much waste, which lessens the amount of garbage going to the dump and they provide powerful fertilizer from their droppings and in their use in composting. 

After the recent town council meeting where Darren Butcher, along with his wife Stepheny and Sharena Fruciano presented further desires to have a revision to make chickens legal in Thermopolis, they sat down to respond to the events at the meeting. Lonny Ramsey also joined the conversation.

Fruciano said that “93% of the top 100 largest cities in the United States allow urban chickens.” Her husband Anthony is from Boston and that city allows chickens. She said their friends in Boston say, “It just blows their minds that a little town in Wyoming won’t allow chickens.”

Response to meeting

Darren Butcher said regarding the recent town council meeting, “It was a summary of everything I’ve heard them say, with me responding to every point, since I have been presenting this beginning in 2018, in a way where they would hear their own words and move with me in advancing the cause. Instead, I got silenced with a referral to a lawyer. That part was shocking. I have had an answer to what they have told me over the three years that we’ve been doing this. Every point I brought up was an answer to everything they’ve said to me. Everything. And when they did not have a motion, they didn’t have any discussion, nothing, they said, “What do we do with that?” The Mayor turned to the lawyer. I’ve never seen that in any council meeting, ever. They were done with listening to the chicken thing. They heard what I had to say and they were not wanting to do anything about it and they went through a lawyer to get out of it.”

Fruciano added, “In my opinion, there have been past meetings where there was some discussion but it was very argumentative, very opinionated, not fact-based opinions. I think they were just trying to avoid that because they don’t want to deal with it. They don’t want to address it.” 

Darren Butcher said, “I felt like I answered every one of their questions respectfully. I spoke respectfully.” 

When it came to the council’s approach Darren said, “I felt there was a lack of respect in one aspect and so that’s why I asked for clarification at the end, “Was that a unanimous no?” and the Mayor said specifically using my own words “That’s a unanimous no.” 

However, there was no vote for a unanimous ‘No’ at the council meeting. Butcher said, “He just said it to me directly.”

Fruciano said that the council has to follow parliamentary procedure and explained the process and protocol. There was no motion or second or discussion or vote.

Outside town hall

Darren Butcher then explained about an informal meeting that took place outside Thermopolis Town Hall later where he, his wife Stepheny and Fruciano spoke with council members Dusty Lewis and John Dorman, Sr. He said, “Dusty came straight up to me and said he was frustrated with the mind set of how they’re handling this chicken issue. He was like, ‘It’s no big deal having chickens’ and he doesn’t know why they’re making such a big deal about it. He brought up that I talked about power tools and other nuisances.” Darren explained that chickens are quieter than cement trucks. Darren said, “Lewis understands that they are not a problem, but he doesn’t know how to deal with the other council members and get over their mind set.” 

Darren Butcher said, “Mr. Dorman wanted to encourage me as I’m his neighbor. He likes having me involved. He liked the presentation I did several years ago about a certain zone and said that I should re-present that.”

Butcher also said, “A little later town attorney Mike Messenger came outside and said he doesn’t have a dog in the fight, but he has no problem with the chickens.” 

Darren Butcher said that he was not dejected or discouraged by what happened that night but said, “It exposed the mind set because I used their own words. I came in listening to everything they said and I came with my best: How about this?”

Past town council meetings

Regarding interactions with the town council in the past, Fruciano said, “Their argument was there are more people that don’t want chickens in town and our argument was we have never seen one of them at a council meeting. All I know is you said several people had mentioned it to you and so can we just bring it to a vote? If there are more people in this community that really have a serious issue with the chickens, then I would drop it. But I really just want to play a part in the political process and I want you guys to do your job, which I feel is to listen to what the community has to say and see if that’s what the community wants and not just make a broad assumption because somebody you know personally has an issue with it and that is the general consensus.”

Signatures

Lonny Ramsey then brought up the task of gaining 300 signatures from the community.  Ramsey said about the council, “Then they started putting all these restrictions on there. Only one house gets one vote, per household. They had to be a property owner. You can’t be a renter. You have to be a registered voter. It couldn’t be someone who owned property and that didn’t currently live in Thermopolis. They can’t be out-of-towners at all, they can’t have any voice in it. By the time they got done putting all the restrictions on it, trying to cover themselves from that 300 number which they were kind of afraid of. You and I both know 300 votes would swing any election held in Thermopolis.”

Darren Butcher said, “And as soon as the 300 number was mentioned, ‘where did the number 300 come from?’ and council member Tony Larson said, ‘It’s a threat.’ Because we were challenging them. If we could get 300, we can challenge your position on the board.”

Stepheny Butcher said, “There are approximately 150 or something signatures initially turned in but they threw out some because there were two per house or because they weren’t a voter and a property owner. They threw out signatures. There are more signatures that we have not turned in. We have more signatures.”

Numbers debate

Darren Butcher said, “If you take it as a poll, there might have been a college student at the house or a spouse. So, that number can turn into way more than 300 if you take it as a poll. It registers that there is an interest. Council member Bill Malloy has mentioned that in private conversations. He’s told us he thinks there would be 700 votes against it when if you look at what it took Dusty Lewis to win the other day it’s 547 votes. To say that 700 people would come out against chickens, I think that’s a ridiculous estimation.” 

Darren Butcher added that the 300 signatures would not be putting the issue to a town vote, but for the town council “to consider” it for a vote. He said it was not a guarantee to have a formal vote and let the community decide.

Stepheny Butcher said that there were some community members that didn’t want chickens but were for the parliamentary procedure to happen and wanted a formal vote. But the signature form didn’t say this would be going to a vote and therefore they didn’t sign it because they didn’t want to be put on there as wanting chickens. Darren Butcher said, “They wanted the democratic process to take place.”

Put it to a vote

Darren Butcher concluded in regard to the council and moving forward, he said, “If we’re going to do it, let’s be reasonable. Let’s not be biased toward it. Let’s hear and respect the community. Let’s look at what other cities are doing throughout the world but not be so isolated with control and having the last say just to have the last say. Are you listening to the 50-good-old-boy system or are you actually listening to the voters?”

Darren and Stepheny Butcher and their allies would like to see if a formal vote to make chickens legal in the town of Thermopolis could be added to the General Election ballot. They want the community to decide. All of them said that if the community would vote no to the chickens, they would drop the issue.